Showing posts with label Angels. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Angels. Show all posts

Tuesday, December 20, 2022

HE IS WITH US (and Blog Break)

 

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Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel, which means, “God is with us.” Matthew 1:23 Isaiah 7:14 (NRSV)



Do we understand the significance of the angel’s message? This message refers to a prophecy of Isaiah some 4oo years earlier. God is with us!



Even today, we see evidence of God’s presence in our world. The end of November 2017, I received a prayer request from my best friend. Her husband’s nephew had called and asked her to pray for his new-born granddaughter. The baby was born with three heart abnormalities.



The medical team waited for almost a week before performing surgery. In the meantime, several of us were praying. I requested prayer from one of my social media friends and from an online social media prayer group. This family needed to see God’s working in this circumstance. On the day I prepared this. My friend texted me a picture of the baby being held by her 3-year-old sister. She seems to have no tubes for breathing or feeding or heart monitor leads. We believed that this baby will go home very soon. God was with them throughout this past year.

UPDATE: In the fall of 2022, my friend and her husband along with their younger daughter journeyed out west and visited this nephew and his family. The little girl told my friend’s husband that she has a zipper on her chest. He told her that he has a zipper as well. The child is doing very well.



In the early part of our nation, there were people who believed that God created the world and chose to stand back and see what we would do. However, this is not the way the modern theologians teach. Those of us who have witnessed His workings know that God chooses to stand beside us in the good times and in the not-so-good times and guides us through those less than good times.



As we continue in our walk with God, let us learn to seek God in our lives and let Him lead us through the difficult times of our lives.

May this thought continue as we approach the upcoming New Year.





I am going to take a blog break until Tuesday, January 3, 2023. There are some things I need to get done here at home and also finish a bit of Christmas shopping,



Friday, December 24, 2021

Some Christmas Music

 I always find the carols of Christmas soothing. Here are some of my favorites. I trust you will enjoy them as much as I do.


                      I  wish each of you and your families a BLESSED  CHRISTMAS!

 


O Holy Night


Hark the Herald Angels Sing



Angels We Have Heard on High


    


                                                             Mary, Did You Know? 


Wednesday, September 22, 2021

He Shall Endure Forever

 




 

                But the LORD shall endure forever; He has prepared his throne for                                     judgement. Psalm 9:7 (NKJV)

 

David pens some very deep thoughts in this short verse.

 

The Lord shall endure forever-

 

God will always be there for His children. When I was in college, there was a movement that stated, “God is dead.” I didn’t pay any attention to that thought. I don’t believe the movement survived through the 1960’s. 

 He has prepared His throne for judgment-

                                             Yes, each one of us will be judged as to what we have done about Jesus, the clergy people have studied at university levels to attain the skills to preach, teach, counsel, and lead the flocks God had given them. Missionaries also spend at least one year learning the language of the field where they will minister.

In the medical field, doctors, nurses, nursing assistants, and dieticians attend schools in order to gain the knowledge to work where God places them.                 

As Christian believers, we must prepare for worship, both individual and corporate. We must be certain that our hearts are ready to go before the Lord. When we prepare to worship Him, we are then more open to serve Him how and where He chooses.   

 

Yes, God will judge us according to what we have done for Him. Each of us must prepare our hearts to be open to work for Him as He chooses. I have experienced working in different areas of service for God over the years.  As I get older, I can see His hand on my life’s choices more and more.                                                                

 

 

 

                 

 

Friday, February 26, 2021

God Sees Me- Isaiah

 

Vision.org


               

In the year King Uzziah died,

I saw the Lord seated on a throne,

High and exalted, and the train of

his robe filled the temple.

Isaiah 6:1 (NIV)

 

I always love the word picture Isaiah gives us of seeing the LORD in the temple. As we read further into this chapter, we see that Isaiah is overwhelmed by the scene of the seraphs and the temple filling up with smoke. He confesses that he is a sinner and is not worthy of being able to see the LORD.

This scene is written from Isaiah’s view. God is also present, along with the seraphs.

King Uzziah had died. Isaiah was probably in mourning over this loss to the nation. He grieved for the nation. God could have seen Isaiah in his saddened state and chose to reveal Himself to Isaiah.

 

God commissions Isaiah to represent Him to those in the nation Judah. Does God ever give us His blessing to perform an act for Him? Yes, He does. Any time we are led by God to pray for someone, that is His commission from Him to pray for that person or that need.

 

Friday, December 4, 2020

Advent

 

www.balsamhill.com


                 Do not be afraid. I bring you good tidings of great joy that will be for all the people.

                                                                Luke 2:10 (NIV)

The term Advent comes from the Latin. It means “He comes to.” We take it to mean that Jesus comes into our world. As we prepare for His arrival in our world, we celebrate His birth each year.

 

We welcome Him into our hearts and share His love with those around us, our families, our church families, our friends, those who assist us in the market place.

 

Our heavenly Father sent Jesus into our world because of His love for us, His children. He sent His son into a world fraught with hardship, heartache, and danger. He sent Jesus into our world to show us how to live for His Father. We are not to fear the things of this world.

Are there ways we can show our love to those around us? During the last shutdown of our church, our pastor’s wife started a ‘’shepherding group,”  certain ones signed up to act as shepherds to those who either can’t get out or haven’t gotten out to church due to fear that it is not safe for them to be out.

One lady I call lives in another town. She is divorced (has been for a long time.) Her sons are grown and live in other parts of the state. As we were ending our conversation earlier this week, she told me she loved me. I was touched.

 

Before snow set in, I hoped to have our Christmas decorations out of our yard barn. It did not happen, the snow won. Hubby is not feeling well either, so we will wait until he starts to feel better.

Friday, September 13, 2019

Jesus Prayed; God Responded

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 Now when all the people were baptized and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son, with you, I am well pleased” Luke 3:21-22 (ESV)

Jesus chose to be baptized along with other people by John the Baptist. There are several thoughts on why Jesus chose to be baptized. One is that “this was the first public declaration of His ministry.” (1) He chose to be identified with “those who were repenting of their sins”. (2). His heavenly Father confirmed his decision to do this.
When we pray, do we expect answers from God? Yes, we do. Can we expect answers to be forthcoming quickly? Not always. God sometimes must withhold His answers until we are ready for them. It is during these times He equips us with what we need in order to receive the answer we seek.
This event in Jesus’ life came eighteen years after He was in the temple where He listened to the reading of God’s word. When Mary and Joseph found him there, He told them, He had to be about His Father’s work. God chose to wait for His Son identify with the common ordinary people before He blessed Jesus with the words at the end of our focus text.
(1) Life Application Bible (NIV), Tyndale House Inc., Zondervan Publishing House, ©1991-page 1797
(2) IBID

Tuesday, April 2, 2019

An Interview with Jesus’ Mother


Quiet Spirit: Hello. Today we have with us Jesus’ mother, Mary. She has quite a story to share with us. Welcome, Mary. Thank you for coming to Following My King. Would you please share some of these tender memories with our readers?

Mary: I would be glad to. What would you like me to share?

Q. S.: Anything you feel led to.

M.: As I stood and watched my son and Savior as He struggled to carry his cross, that instrument of torture, along the road, I revisited the scenes of His life.

Q. S.: Can you please give us some background about the marriage customs among the Hebrew people at the time of your betrothal?

M.: As a young girl from a poor family, I was pledged to Joseph, a local carpenter. He was learning his trade from his father, as he would teach our future sons if God would bless us in that way. There were three steps to marriage for Hebrew young couples. First, the parents met and discussed the possibility of a union. Then the couple became “pledged”, the only way a pledging could end was through the death of one of the couple or through a divorce. The final step was the marriage ceremony.

Q.S.: You received a very special visit from the angel Gabriel? How did that make you feel? How did you react?
M.: An angel brought me a message that changed all our plans. It brought pain, ridicule, and rejection by my peers, I might have lost my beloved Joseph. I wasn’t certain that I could follow God and do that. However, I chose to obey God. Do you understand that? I chose to obey God.

Q.S.: How did Joseph react to this news.

M.: At first, Joseph was bewildered by what I told him. When word got around to the community, we lost friends and he lost some business. But the angel went to him and told him that what I had told him was true. My baby was conceived by God. He took me into his home as his wife and assisted me as he could.

Q.S.: What happened after your son was born?

M.: Some shepherds came to the stable where we stayed. I sat quietly and listened to them jubilantly tell the story of how they heard of the birth of my son. They told me of the angel and then the angel host and their message. One of those angels must have been the one who carried the message to me and told Joseph that he was to continue with our pledging. These lowly workers were thrilled to know that they saw angels from God. All I could do was sit, listen, ponder their words, and record them in my heart.

Q.S.: When Joseph took you and your baby to the temple, what happened?

M.: When Joseph took me and baby Jesus for the purification rite, Simeon, a man devoted to God, met us in the Temple When Simeon asked to hold the baby, he praised God. He told God he was ready to go to heaven in peace because he had been allowed to see our babe. Simeon called our baby Jesus God’s salvation for His people.
As we departed the Temple with Jesus, Simeon gave us a blessing and said; “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, so the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul, too.” Could this be what he meant?

Q.S.: Do you have anything else you would like to share with our readers?

M.: As I stood there at the foot of the cross, watching my son as He breathed his last breaths, He entrusted my care to John, the only one of His followers who was loyal to Him through His ministry and through the trial and tribulation my son suffered. I have always remembered this wonderful act of love my son did for me.
Q.S.: Thank you, Mary, for stopping in and sharing these personal thoughts with us.


M.: You are welcome. Thank you for inviting me.

Friday, December 22, 2017

WITH

http://fellowshipbaptistchurch.podbean.com/

Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel, which means, “God is with us.” Matthew 1:23 Isaiah 7:14 (NRSV)

Do we understand the significance of the angel’s message? This message refers to a prophecy of Isaiah some 4oo years earlier. God is with us!

Even today, we see evidence of God’s presence in our world. The end of last month, I received a prayer request from a very dear friend. Her husband’s nephew had called and asked her to pray for his new-born granddaughter. The baby was born with three heart abnormalities.

The medical team waited for almost a week before performing surgery. In the meantime, several of us were praying. I requested prayer from one of my social media friends and from an online social media prayer group. This family needed to see God’s working in this circumstance. On the day I prepared this. My friend texted me a picture of the baby being held by her 3-year-old sister. She seems to have no tubes for breathing or feeding or heart monitor leads. We believe that this baby will go home very soon. God was with them.

In the early part of our nation, there were people who believed that God created the world and chose to stand back and see what we would do. Those of us who have witnessed His workings know that God chooses to stand beside us in the good times and in the not-so-good times.

As we continue in our observance of Advent, let us learn to seek God in our lives and let Him lead us through the difficult times of our lives.

May this thought continue as we approach the upcoming New Year.


I will take a blog break so I can enjoy my family-time with my Hubby and our son. I will be back on January 2, 2018.  

Wednesday, June 7, 2017

Spiritual Rewards: God’s Presence

Image result for isaiah 6:4-5
http://www.preceptaustin.org

Isaiah’s Realization

Isaiah's Realization

“And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said: “Woe is me for I am a man of unclean lips and dwell in the midst of people with unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts." Isaiah 6:4-5 (ESV)

            The scene Isaiah describes here has been described as ‘tokens of terror.’ (1.) He was confronted with who God is and the state of his heart. He realized He was a sinner. Have we had times when we faced God and, like Isaiah, realized how wretched our lives are?

            I once was in conversation with a relative. My dad was in the hospital after having emergency open heart surgery. She said something about my dad needing prayer but then she said something that has stayed with me. “God doesn’t hear the prayers of a sinner.”
I didn’t pick up on what she said. She KNEW she was a sinner. I am sorry to say she left this earth about a month later. I missed the opportunity to lead this woman to Christ. I had to ask God to forgive me for that. However, I still carry that thought.
           
            As we enter the sanctuaries of our churches, we enter into God’s presence. In today’s world, I am sorry to say, some of us don’t act any different than if we were going into a living room or a game room.
                       
When are we going to learn about being in God’s presence?

_____________
1.         Matthew Henry, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids MI ©1961, page 836


Monday, June 5, 2017

Spiritual Rewards: God’s Presence

Image result for isaiah 6
http://www.crosscards.com



Isaiah Sees the Lord
“In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up. And the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet and with two he flew. And one called to another and said, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah 6:1-3 (ESV)

            Isaiah was thought to be a scribe in the royal palace at Jerusalem. (1)
  God had other plans for him. The passage at the beginning of Isaiah 6 tells us of his calling by God to work for Him and His kingdom. Let’s look at the first part of his encounter with God.

“In the year that King Uzziah died,” Uzziah tells us a date of his encounter with God.  King Uzziah died circa 740 B.C. He was thought to be a good king but people turned their backs on God. (See 2 Chronicles 26:18-21)(2.)

“I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up.” Isaiah saw God Almighty seated in His proper place, above the earth and all the things that make it up.

“. . . the train of his robe filled the temple.” This had to be a wondrous sight. As a preschooler, my son kept asking, “What does crowded mean?” Someone helped me give him an answer. We told him that something was crowded when something big was put in a small space. I don’t believe that the temple was crowded when Isaiah saw God. I envision the folds of God’s robe wrapping around the items of worship as they came to rest around Isaiah.

“Above him stood the seraphim.” Seraphim have been described as ‘an order of celestial beings.’ They seem to have borne a general resemblance to the human figure, for they are represented as having face, voice, hands and feet. (3.)  
   
“Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet and with two he flew.” I find it interesting that Isaiah described the seraphim in this way. I’m sure seeing them fly impressed Isaiah and anyone who would witness their actions.

“One called to another and said. . .” We don’t know how many of these celestial creatures Isaiah saw. The Unger’s Bible dictionary tells me that the seraphim (the word is plural) were aligned on both sides of the throne of God. In this setting, each side called out to the other, waited for a response from the other group and then called out again.      (The musical term for this type of worship is antiphonal.) (4.)

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory.” I can almost hear the seraphim worshipping the Lord in this way. To me, seeing and hearing them and seeing God as Isaiah witnessed it would be the dream of every child of God.
 
___________  
1.      Life Application Bible, Tyndale House Publishers Inc, Wheaton IL. Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, ©1991 MI page 1179
2.      Op Cit page 1178
3.      The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary, Moody Press Chicago, IL © 1988 Page 1160

4.      Op Cit Page 1160

Wednesday, January 4, 2017

Rest for Others and Ourselves

Image result for abraham entertaining the angels rembrandt
textweek.com 



January—Rest, Refreshing


            “The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. He said, Ïf I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. Let a little water be brought, and then you may wash your feet and rest under this tree.” Genesis 18:1-4 “(NIV)

            What do we see in this passage? Abraham sits at the entrance to his tent, his home, during the hot part of the day. He sees three travelers as they near his home. He hurries toward them and greets them. He offers to get them some assistance to wash and refresh themselves and to allow them to rest from their journey. When we read further in the scripture passage, Abraham instructs Sarah to make food for the travelers.

            I especially like the end of our focus passage. “Let a little water be brought, and then you may wash your feet and rest under this tree.” Abraham practices basic hospitality here. He even goes so far as to give up his spot under the tree to these three travelers.

            We had friends, both of whom have passed on, who always offered us iced tea, or iced water to drink every time we stopped by. When we went to their house on Christmas Eve, or the night before, she had a spread fit for royalty for us. Even when I went to check on them when one was ailing, someone invited me to sit and rest and partake of refreshment, if I could.


            As children of God, we need to learn that we are not indestructible and that it is imperative that we learn the art of rest, relaxation, and refreshing ourselves and others.

Wednesday, December 7, 2016

Immanuel. New Testament

Image result for immanuel new testament
belovedbabynames.com

December: Messiah
Today we look at a visit of an angel of God to a very confused Joseph. The angel directs Joseph in what he must do to aid his intended in her circumstance. God’s angel tells Joseph the impending child’s name and its meaning.

“All this took place to fulfill what the Lord said through the prophet. ‘ The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him ‘Immanuel’—which means ‘God with us.’”
                                Matthew 1:22: 23 (NIV)
               
                Matthew tells us of an angel’s visit to Joseph. He was considering leaving Mary as opposed to having her stoned. Matthew says he could have exposed her to public disgrace. (1:19) He must have been torn by what his choices were. An angel from God visited the carpenter and spoke of the importance of the child Mary carried.

                All names have meanings. The name God selected for His Son has the best meaning of all, “God with us.”

                Once we accept Jesus into our hearts, God is with us all the time. He is even there when we don’t feel His presence.

                In our present world, we see events occur that are heart-wrenching. When these events are of a personal nature, we have to allow the Holy Spirit to give us the strength to function in the face of the circumstances of this fallen world. I cannot stress enough the importance of standing for Christ because He is truly “God with us.”  When we do this, as He directs we bring His Kingdom into our world.



Monday, December 1, 2014

The Angel Gabriel

LaVista Chruch of Christ. org

As we enter the season of Advent, let’s look at the one whose birth we celebrate. We begin with the Angel Gabriel.
“‘Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you. Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.’” (Luke 1:28, 30)
“‘You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.’” (v. 31)
“‘He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.’” (v.32)
“This news stunned Mary. ‘How can it be, I haven’t been with any man.’”
“The angel answered, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’” (v.:35)

            Mary had recently become engaged to Joseph, a carpenter in their town. How could this be? Will he believe her when she shares this information with him? What will her parents think? She knew how the people in their town will treat them. She had seen the citizens of Bethlehem ostracize young couples before. She even saw young girls stoned because of their transgression.

            But Gabriel said that this child would be very special—the Son of God.

            How do we view Jesus in the 21st Century? Do we believe He is God’s Son? Jesus asked the disciples, “‘Who do people say the Son of Man is?” The twelve answered, saying ‘Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah, still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” Jesus then homed into the crux of the issue, “What about you? Who do you say I am?’”

            Sometimes we have to return to this question and ask it of ourselves. “Who do we think Jesus is?”     


Wednesday, June 4, 2014

News of Great Joy




“But the angel of the LORD appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them,
 and they were terrified. Buy the angel said to them,
“Do not be afraid, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all people.
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
 Luke 2:9-11 (NIV)

The shepherds were afraid. They had not seen anything like the light that appeared in the night sky. It even enveloped them. They saw an angel; they didn’t know what to think. Their hearts raced, the color went out of their faces. They couldn’t move. All they could do was listen.

The Angel spoke words of comfort; then shared the joyous news with them.  It had been 400 years since God sent a prophet to them. No one came to tell them of God or to help them find a way to Him.

The angel called this news a message of a joyous nature. It was for all people- those living in palaces as well as those living off the land.

In our 21st Century world, we see people who need the Lord. People living in our neighborhoods and those we pass as we travel in our towns, as we go about our daily errands. Those who hold cardboard signs as they stand alongside of the roads we travel elicit conflicting emotions in my heart. As I initially write this, I remember seeing two men, less than a city block apart-one man had a woman and a baby sitting in the shade of a nearby business sign. I felt torn as I surveyed the scene. We have food pantries and agencies whose ministry is to help those in need. I remember the stories of people being taken in by those who do this and have been caught in their misrepresentation. And yet, if they are truly without the basics, I am caught by the fact that God loves them and Jesus died for them, just like He died for me.

Graphic:www.goodsalt.com


Friday, December 27, 2013

The Wise Men



            “Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, ‘Where is the one who has been born King of the Jews?’” Matthew 2:2 (NIV)
            “When they saw the star they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.” Matthew 2:10

The Magi travelled a great distance to see the Christ child. They had studied scrolls and watched the heavens for a sign that the scrolls foretold of the birth of the one who would save men of their sins.

The Magi came to the place Joseph, Mary and the child were staying. Their purpose was to worship the king. They brought gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.   They received a warning in a dream to take an alternate route back to their homeland.


God protected these wise men. They made a journey to get to Bethlehem. They encountered King Herod on the way.  When they got to Bethlehem, they might have been very tired. They bowed down and worshipped the babe and chose to heed the guidance of the angel. He will protect us as we go through times of uncertainty and insecurity. We can depend on God to protect us as we go through life.

This is a song that has a few surprises in it. The lyrics speak of what the three gifts are and their meaning.
I found a place that refers to this carol as an Epiphany   carol.




Graphic: biblepictures.net

Wednesday, December 18, 2013

The Angel and the Host



“An angel of the Lord appeared to them . . . the angel said . . .
Do not be afraid I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel,
praising God and saying, ‘Glory to God in the highest, and on earth
peace to men on whom his favor rests.’” 
 Luke 2:9,10-11, 14 (NIV)


God sent one of His angels to earth to announce the birth of Jesus, His Son. God just didn’t tell the angels to go down and tell the world about this miraculous birth. He told them who to visit and reassure the people whom he selected to be the first to know.
The angel knew the ones God sent them to were awe struck by this sudden appearance .The first words spoken by the angel were words of comfort and peace. “Do not be afraid.” Then a host of angels appear and began to praise God

How many times have we seen angels in this story?
1.) An angel went to Mary and told her what was going to happen.
2.) The angel Gabriel appeared to Zechariah while he was in the Holy of Holies.
3.) An angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph three times during the times of danger to the Christ child.
 4.) An angel host appeared to the shepherds.
5.) An angel forewarned the Magi to take another as they headed back to their country.


God deemed them important to His work—they were His messengers.

Monday, December 9, 2013

Joseph

“Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and 

 did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.”   Matthew 1:19(NIV)                                                                                             





Joseph felt overwhelmed when he discovered Mary’s condition. He loved her and yet he was disappointed. He, being a just man, thought about how he could end their engagement.

Joseph knew he had two options. He could very publicly humiliate Mary and her family by having her stoned, or he could quietly divorce her, and go on with his life.

An angel came to him as he slept one night and spoke. Joseph learned that the child Mary carried was because the Holy Spirit had caused her to conceive. Then, the angel told him that Mary would give birth to a son and that son’s name was to be Immanuel—“which means ‘God with us.’” (Matthew 1:23)

Joseph awoke and obediently brought Mary into his home as his wife. (Matthew 1:24) 

Joseph was blessed with two more visits from an angel of the Lord. We have recorded information that each time an angel appeared Joseph obeyed and moved Mary and the child Jesus to safety.


If you would like to read more about Joseph and Mary, I suggest two books. Two From Galilee by Marjorie Holmes and The Handmaid and the Carpenter by Elizabeth Berg. Both of these novels point out different aspects of the story of Joseph and Mary. Both these authors did a lot of research in order to write their novels.

Graphic:www.sjaindia.org

“Abide in Me”

  Read John 15:4-10 Abide in me and I in you. As th e branch cannot b ear fr u it of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither c...